The Elvish Room

[Rhiannon]

Tolkien spent his whole live perfecting it.

[Melian]

it might be. . . . . . . . j/k

[Melian]

arwin id love to join the mailing list my email is:
[e-mail]  

[Endoriel]

I would like to be on the list..
[e-mail]
its latin for "beware of dog"

[Endoriel]

this might be a little off the subject but is anybody in here german? or does anybody speak german? im proud of myself because i have been taking german for a 3 years now and i went to a german site with pictures of scenes from FOTR that got cut out...and i could understand some of it! yay, im happy!
AND Dominic Monaghan, the guy who plays Meriadoc, was born in Germany and speaks fluent german! thats so cool....

sorry...went off on a tangent  ;D

[Rhiannon]

Ich.... ;D So weit ich weiß, bin ich das einzige Mitglied aus Deutschland. Wäre aber nett, sich mit jemand zu unterhalten. Gerne auch IM, wenn Du willst...

[Endoriel]

Ich weiss nur ein Bisschen Deutsch. Aber ich möchte mit Ihnen sprechen.  
 I hope that made sense.... I dont have any instant messenger service... you could message me on here though (PM)

[Rhiannon]

It did make sense (Great!). Ok, to be continued PM....

[Claire]

Hello, fellow elves. Hey, just to let you know, my website needs members, so if your interested in joining, it would be a lot of help. ;D

[Arwen_Undomiel]

Hello, everyone! I know quite a bit of Quenya Elvish from taking a Quenya course (I'm not sure if it's the same one mentioned earlier; regardless, just type in ardalambion to get to the site where you can find it), so maybe I could help a bit. The man who wrote the course (Helge K. Fauskanger) is a professional linguist and has done about as much research as is possible on Elvish in all of Tolkien's manuscripts available, so it is pretty safe to assume this is real Quenya. Here's a mini lesson (note: I am not taking anything from the course, this is just a little lesson of some things I have learned that I made in my own words.):

Let's take an Elvish sentence and break it down.

Ecénienyes = I have seen it

Ecénië = verb in perfect tense meaning "has/have seen."
-nyë = I
-s = it

Let's start with the verb, ecénië. The root for this would be cen-.
Since this verb is not irregular (like some Quenya verbs!), we can deduce quite a lot of tenses.

Present tense = céna (formed by adding a if the root doesn't already have an a on the end — more about that later —, then lengthening usually the first vowel by adding an accent mark like this: ´ You should not lengthen the vowel, though, if it is followed by more than one consonant or is a combination of two vowels, ex. lindëa or caita)

Past tense = cennë (formed by adding -në. For some Quenya verbs, this will result in letter groups that don't work in the language, so there is a special fix for that — more on that later)

Future tense = cenuva (formed by adding -uva)

Aorist tense = cenë (formed by adding -ë. Don't worry about this one though unless you take the course — the Aorist is very complicated and Tolkien made this particular version of it up. Just use the present tense.)

Perfect tense = ecénië (formed by adding -ië on the end and adding the same vowel as the first vowel appearing in the root onto the beginning)

Infinitive = cenë or ceni (formed just like the aorist, except you can add -i in place of -ë if you want.)

Participial = cénala (formed by adding -ala onto the end and lengthening the first vowel following the same rules as the present tense.)

There are two kinds of verb roots: one without a vowel on the end like cen- or one with an a on the end like lala- (meaning "laugh"). I will cover the ones with an a on the end next time.


Now, let's go to the pronoun -nyë. This can only be used as a suffix attached onto the end of a word, very different from English. It can either be -nyë or just -n if you like — both are accepted in Quenya. However, if there's another suffix stuck on the end, use -nyë.<br>
cénin or céninyë = I see or I am seeing
cennan or cennanyë = I saw (I'm not sure of this one; it could be cennen or cennenyë)<br>cenuvan or cenuvanyë = I will see
cenen or cenenyë = I see (I'm not sure about this one either, but it's the Aorist anyway, so just use the present tense)
ecénien or ecénienyë = I have seen

Now for the pronoun -s (it). It's a suffix, so just put it on the end of a word. Note: you can't put it on the end of a word with a simple -n for "I" on the end like so — cénins — it wouldn't work in Quenya. Use the -nyë version like so: céninyes (I see, I am seeing).

Hope that helps!

[Arwen_Undomiel]

Here's another sentence to break down:

Lindanelyë i vanyë lindi.

You sang the beautiful songs.

Lindanë = sang lyë = you i= the vanyë= beautiful (plural) lindi= songs


Let's start with the verb again. Lindanë is the past tense of the root linda- , "sing". This is a root with an a on the end, so some of the conjugations will be different than a root without the extra vowel on the end.

Present tense = lindëa (For cen-, we added an a on the end to make a present tense. If we added an a onto the root linda-, it would come out as lindaa, which is entirely impossible in Quenya — no two of the same vowels can be right next to each other in a word. So to form a present tense out of a root with an a on the end, we'll insert an e right before the a. Since this e is supposed to be pronounced seperately from the a, we can add a ¨ symbol. On another note, since there is more than one consonant after the first vowel in lindëa, we do not lengthen the vowel. ex. lálëa.)

Past tense: lindanë (Formed by adding -në)<br>
Future tense: linduva (formed by dropping the final a and adding -uva)

Aorist: linda (formed by doing nothing.)

Perfect tense: ilindië (formed by dropping the final a and adding -ië, lengthening the first vowel if possible, and copying the first vowel and putting it at the front, like so: aharyië, ecénië, utúlië, oroitië.)

Infinitive: linda (formed the same way as the Aorist: by doing nothing.)

Participial: lindala (formed by adding -la on the end.)


Next let's look at the pronoun -lyë (you). It behaves in exactly the same way as -nyë — it even can be shortened to just -l !

lindil or lindilyë = you sing, you are singing
lindanel or lindanelyë = you sang (I'm not sure about this one, check the course if you want)
linduval or linduvalyë = you will sing
lindal or lindalyë = you sing (the Aorist again)
ilindiel or ilindielyë = you have sung


Now for the next word:

i = the in Quenya. Simple as that; it doesn't change for plural or gender (which there isn't in Quenya) or anything like that.

Some other handy words:

ar = and
ná = is
nar = are
nu = under
or = over or above
an = because
imbë = between
mir = into
ter or terë = through

That should help with your vocabulary.

Next: vanyë, the adjective. It would normally be vanya, but since what it is describing is plural, the a is replaced with ë. Most adjectives end in a so this is the normal rule.

And now for the noun, lindi (songs). Lindi is the plural or lindë (song). The general rules of making a plural noun: To make a plural out of a noun that ends in a consonant, add -i: ex. eleni (stars) out elen. To make a plural out of a noun ending in a vowel add -r: ex. parmar (books) out of parma. (Note: what follows is an "I think but I'm not sure paragraph. If in doubt, check the course.) If the vowel that it ends with is an e, though, I'm pretty sure you're supposed to replace it with an i.

Next time: pronunciation!!

[LadyArwenUndómiel]

This breaking down of Elvish words reminds me of my mailing list and 30 pages of words which I have...

By the way, how long did it take you, Arwen to complete the course because I really want to take it and wonder if I have the time. Could you please tell me how long it takes to do it and how much words you actually learn out of the thing because I saw it and am extremely interested in it!

Thank you!

[Arwen_Undomiel]

Well, actually, I haven't completed it yet — it's pretty thick. I'm homeschooled, so I can use my time working on it for a credit of foreign language in school. But I really don't know how long it normally takes to finish it — I'd guess that it depends on the motivation and interest level of the person taking it! But however long, it is, IMHO, the best way to learn Elvish out there. It isn't just lists of words, it's actually teaching you the language like a French textbook would teach you French. At the end I'll be able to practically speak it (or at least write it very fluently)!

As for words it gives you, it does teach you a lot of vocab, but not enough to be really fluent — vocab lists can be found on the Ardalambion site, though. So it doesn't really matter much.

But anyway, it ROCKS, and I suggest you give it a try!!

[LadyArwenUndómiel]

I can't believe how lucky you are! You're actually allowed to take it as an extra language? I have either Spanish or French as an option and I chose French. It's going quite well, though I would prefer Elvish if the choice was found somewhere in my path. Before I found the course (that's before the end of term, before I got attacked by endless homework), I went back and forth between sites to learn more and known some 50 words; but that's all. I've been told by many people that I shouldn't be wasting my time on Elvish but going ahead to another language. I just don't understand it! (What if I got lost in Lothlorien? How could I communicate?)

Either way, I've made up my mind to take it; though I hope that once school starts again, I will still be able to find more time. I guess that's the biggest worry about there (besides things going into one pointy ear and coming out of the less pointy one). Another question which I have would be downloading the courses down. I don't think my parents would be happy if I was on the net for hour after hour, reading a page about Elvish.

Sorry to be bothering you about this, Arwen_Undomiel!
I'll go to the site in a day or two and download it down. I guess it's now or never, better start soon because I don't have forever (can't help being mortal!).

Quel marth! (Elvish for good luck!)

[Arwen_Undomiel]

And now, for my mini-lesson on pronunciation!

Pronunciation is very important, especially if you want to be able to speak the language (well, duh ;D )! So here's a pronunciation key I made with the help of Mr. Fauskanger (though not taken or copied from any of his course — just, like the previous lessons, a little compilation I made of things I've learned!).

First, for the vowels:

In Quenya (and Sindarin, I think) vowels are always pronounced seperately unless they are in a diphthong (a diphthong is two vowels pronounced together at the same time). The Quenya diphthongs are as follows: ai, au, eu, iu, oi, and ui. They are pronounced like so:

ai = pronounced with the same sound as the English word "eye," or a long i in English. Whatever you do, do NOT pronounce it as in the word "main" or "fail" — rather like the word "aisle." Sample word: aiwë (bird)

au = pronounced very much like the "ow" in "now," not as in the word "aura." The first syllable of Sauron should be pronounced kind of like the word "sour." Sample word: laurëa (golden)

eu = pronounced somewhat like the word "so," though it doesn't really have an equal in English. But if you live in England, your pronunciation of the word "so" should come pretty close to the Quenya eu. Sample word: leuca (snake)

iu = pronounced like the "yu" in "yule." Sample word: tiuca (thick, fat)

oi = pronounced like "oy" in English "boy," "coy." Sample word: coirëa (living)

ui = pronounced somewhat like "ooy" from the phrase "too young" or "ui" in ruin with the u and i pronounced together. After the letter q, though, ui is not considered a diphthong — rather a pretter spelling of cwi. Sample word: huinë<br>

The vowels themselves are either long or short. Long vowels are shown with an accent above them, like so: á, é, í, ó, ú. Short vowels don't have any marking above them.

á = pronounced like English "tall," "bother." ex.: nárë (flame)

a = there is nothing really like the Quenya short a in English, but in FotR movie when Saruman stands on top of Isengard during the scene of Caradhras, he recites "Nai yarvaxëa rasselya taltuva nottocarinnar" and gets pretty much all the vowels right. To get this sound, try crossing the a's in the words ball and bat. ex.: anna (gift) (Note: none of the vowels the Quenya word "anna" are pronounced like the name Anna — be careful! Another thing to remember is that the "a" on the end of any Quenya word is NOT made into an "uh" or schwa sound, but is pronounced always like a full "a" sound.)

é = a bit like the "ai" in air, though a lot closer to the "eh" in the German word "Mehr." This is another sound that is not really pronounced in English. ex.: nén (water)

e = pronounced like the word "end" or "send." The e is ALWAYS pronounced at the end of words, but never like as in the word "karate" or the name Jesse. ex.: lempë (five)


I'm getting a headache from staring at the computer for so long, I'll finish this later.

~Arwen~